English French German Italian Portuguese Spanish Swedish

 

IT JUST STOPS

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 4 days ago #23038 by walterex
IT JUST STOPS was created by walterex
I have experienced 2 forced landings over the past 2 years, the 2nd last week, no problems starting I warm up take off and 10 minutes latter it shuts down no warning, no splutter, no drop in revs, normal temp. just shuts down as if both magis are switched off. Last time it happened I was 300ft taking off.
After landing it re starts totally normal and I taxi back
Numerous times I have ground tested for an hour whilst checking wiring, no sign of a problem
Carbs have been cleaned, no indication of ice, plugs replaced (0.015)
It only has 15 hours and was run in correctly
If anyone can help me I would very much appreciate advice, it.s a terrible feeling knowing it's going to happen again
Thanks
Walter
Australia

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 4 days ago #23040 by Dennisr5
Replied by Dennisr5 on topic IT JUST STOPS
What engine are you operating? A picture of how it is set up would help.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 4 days ago #23043 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
would this photo help?
I had a 503 on it before with over 600 hours
thanks

This message has an attachment image.
Please log in or register to see it.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 4 days ago #23044 by Dennisr5
Replied by Dennisr5 on topic IT JUST STOPS
I don't get much from the picture other than it is a liquid cooled grey head. Probably a model 90 582. The symptoms would lead me to believe a fault in the two wires that go to the ignition switch or the switch itself.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 4 days ago #23045 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic IT JUST STOPS
A close up of the engine and how it is set up would be more helpful.
You need a fresh set of Eyeballs on it.
You are too familiar with what it looks like and only see what you expect to see.
Nothing personal, it is just human nature.

Again, What Engine are you operating???
Singe or Dual ignition?

If it instantly stops like when turning OFF the MAG switches, it is most likely an electrical problem.
Assuming Dual ignition and that you test BOTH Mags before every flight it is unlikely to be that BOTH Mag Switches fault out at the same time.

The problem is more likely on the other side of the ignition circuit

Look for corrosion in the grounds leads connected to the Ignition Electronic Boxes.
Look at the White and Green leads connected to the Stator Assembly.
By "Look", I mean take the connections apart, detach the grounds from the frame, and do whatever it takes to confirm that the connections are clean and solid.
This is NOT a 30 second "Eye Ball" inspection.

I will assume the forced landing scared you enough that you are thinking that one more might be your last.
Let's find the problem before you become another Gyro statistic.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 3 days ago #23051 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
I have traced all the wiring, it runs with CD1 and CD2 connected and disconnected ( the ground switches both work correctly )
As you say Bill it's on the other side, both switches cannot earth at once (the switches are nearly new and Rotax) and the earths are all correct.
on the two occasions it shut down, it immediately re started on landing
something breaks contact switches off for a second or two then reconnects, I will check the stator assembly
thanks for your help Bill

a warm up and preflight was complete before this flight

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 3 days ago #23054 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
Bill is there a part in the Stator that could cause both coils to earth and/or disconnect, the only way to switch off of course is to switch off both CDs, and both CDs switches are part of the pre flight
I have a main switch which turns off the power to lights etc. but it does not switch off the engine
thanks
Walter

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 3 days ago #23055 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic IT JUST STOPS
The Low side of the Coils are connected to ground and the High Side powers the ignition.
When you kill the engine, you are grounding the High side of the coils.
If the Low side were to lose their grounds the coils would be floating and no longer power the ignition.

I am not familiar with the interior details of the engine but it would not surprise me to find that the grounds of both Coils are attached to the same bolt.
The only way to confirm this would be to open up the stator assembly and assume everything is Bad until it has been confirmed otherwise.
Assume all the parts and connections are guilty until proven innocent.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 3 days ago - 2 weeks 3 days ago #23057 by kiwiatd
Replied by kiwiatd on topic IT JUST STOPS
Might be a longshot but check the breather for the fuel tank, at full power the 582 will stop like someone killed the mags if the fuel flow stops, then it will start straight away after sitting for a few minutes. also check the whole fuel system, easier than pulling the stator apart.
Last edit: 2 weeks 3 days ago by kiwiatd. Reason: Spelling
The following user(s) said Thank You: Bill Hertzel

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 3 days ago #23060 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
thanks Bill I will check, so if both switches are grounded by the same bolt and it's breaking contact both CDs could be effected and the engine would shut down. Should each CD have it's own earth?
thankyou

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 3 days ago #23061 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
thanks I will check I have run it numerous times on the ground at full revs for hours without a beat? I have done many circuits without a problem, than out of the blue it stops?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 2 days ago #23064 by kiwiatd
Replied by kiwiatd on topic IT JUST STOPS
One case of a blocked vent line that comes to mind was at a flying school.

Only happened with one instructor and (from memory) with a full tank. The CFI would just "nip" the fuel cap, the instructor was cranking the fuel cap as tight as he could, so didn't happen all the time and only with the one pilot. Took a while to find the reason and once the blocked breather was found it never happened again.
The following user(s) said Thank You: walterex

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 2 days ago #23065 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic IT JUST STOPS
Do the White and Green Wires from the Electrical Boxes attach to the same points on the Stator Coil, or are there separate and discrete ignition Coils?
It still would not surprise me if two separate ignition coils were to share a single ground Bolt.

There are plenty of locations on my airframe where up to 6 or more ground wires attach to a single ground point.
The airframe would be SwissCheese if 2 dozen ground wires all needed a separate hole to be bolted to.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 2 days ago #23066 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
thanks Bill I will check next Saturday

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • walterex
  • walterex's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Fresh Boarder
More
2 weeks 1 day ago #23086 by walterex
Replied by walterex on topic IT JUST STOPS
Bill I have an electric fuel pump as a backup, it's flow through do you think it could cause a problem to the Rotax pump?
thanks

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
2 weeks 1 day ago #23087 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic IT JUST STOPS

walterex wrote: Bill I have an electric fuel pump as a backup, it's flow through do you think it could cause a problem to the Rotax pump?
thanks


It is highly unlikely.
The Electric Fuel pump is beneficial in preventing Vapor Lock, but I will guess that you do not run it routinely during flight.
You should at least keep it ON when below pattern altitude.

I think I already know the answer, but I have to ask it anyway...
When the engine stopped are/were you able to attempt a restart in the Air?

An intermittent ground or a Fuel Tank Ventilation issue should be at the top of your list.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.