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No start new install

  • jay white
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4 weeks 9 hours ago #19767 by jay white
No start new install was created by jay white
I hired a Mechanic to help me finish the install of the 80 hp Rotax in my Kitfox. He hooked up the Dynon DS-10 engine monitor and he connected the ignition wires to the left and right mag switches. He completed the fuel manifold routing and we serviced the engine in preparation for the first start. Oil purge did not result in solid lifters but the Rotax manual said to complete the process by starting the engine and running for 5 minutes at 3500 RPM. then check the lifters. Ok, NO start. (yes the fuel is on.) Spark to all the plugs, Fuel in the float bowls,
Mechanical sink is complete and correct. Dynon shows no oil pressure, no RPM but everything else seems fine.
Fuel pressure, oil temp, etc. What am I missing? (other than the rest of my life while I continue to work on this project)

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3 weeks 6 days ago #19773 by RobSeaton
Replied by RobSeaton on topic No start new install
-battery dead? the engine needs to turn min 250rpm to start. Try a boost from your car battery.
-Are the mag switches correct? They should be "open" (no ground) when "ON"
-throttle at idle and choke ON? I know this is old news to you but you gotta look at the simple stuff first.

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3 weeks 6 days ago #19781 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic No start new install
Also, assuming this is a new engine in a new plane, are you certain the throttles are closed?
The carbs default to wide open if the throttle cables do not pull them closed.
The Choke Fuel circuit does not function if the throttle is open.

Be safe! Tie the tail of the plane to a secure object and have someone securely in the pilot's seat on the first start.
If something goes south, you will want to have someone ready and able to shut it down immediately.
This is not the time to be hanging in the door operating the controls.

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3 weeks 5 days ago #19792 by jay white
Replied by jay white on topic No start new install
Thanks for the reminders on all things Rotax. I don't get tired of the safety brief ... ever. the plane is tied to my truck, the throttle cables are full closed but just cracked for start. the battery WAS nearly dead. I boosted it and I am good for about 4 attempts before its time to put it back on the charger. I am ordering the god awful expense of an EarthX unless you talk me out of it. $400.00. ish.

The engine did start and I ran it for 5 seconds before determining that I had no oil pressure indication on the Dynon. The lifters have oil. I checked. I'm working the Dynon issue and have ordered an oil pressure test kit from Spruce. Should be here tomorrow.
"Buy and airplane" they said, "It will be Fun", they said.

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3 weeks 22 hours ago - 3 weeks 22 hours ago #19823 by Bill Hertzel
Replied by Bill Hertzel on topic No start new install
Did you perform the Oil System Purge before the first start?
You should have seen Oil pressure during the Purge.

The lack of Oil Pressure at startup should not have been a surprise.
You should have seen Oil pressure when you "Burped" the Oil tank before starting.

There is no reason need a Lithium Battery and many safety reasons to avoid them.
The only plus side is the weight issue.
You are going to save about the same weight as 20 minutes worth of fuel.
A couple of circuits around the pattern and you are a wash.

If the battery you have will start the engine 4 times WITHOUT the benefit of being recharged by the engine after each start, what is the problem?
Last edit: 3 weeks 22 hours ago by Bill Hertzel.
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2 weeks 6 days ago #19838 by jay white
Replied by jay white on topic No start new install
Yup, did the oil purge process. I have done it several times over the years and I"m familiar. The Dynon showed no oil pressure. I used the test kit gauge to purge again after breaking the circuit to plug in the test gauge. I got oil pressure immediately, so am assuming the engine supplied sender is not compatible with the Dynon DS10. I remotely installed a Kavlico sender. Problem solved. I used the fully charged battery to start the engine. It started and ran as well as a mechanical sync will allow. Dynon is not giving me a believable RPM. It seems to be reading about half of what I should be seeing. Dynon Tech support agrees that the tach setting may be wrong in the Dynon from a setup error by the user. (I did not use my own name) I will reconfigure that tach setting and adjust accordingly. I'm thinking I need an Optical rpm tach to verify the Dynon.
Ok, I didn't get the other battery, What do you think about a safety issue/ I just read a big article about how great they are, is that "Sales writing" or do you see a problem? I"m not familiar with anything battery.

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2 weeks 6 days ago #19839 by alananpat
Replied by alananpat on topic No start new install
Hi Jay. Get you a Battery Tender Plus. This is a smart battery maintainer. Hook it up to your battery every time you leave your hangar. If you need to replace your battery try an Optima P680. My experience with this combination is the battery will last about 7 years of weekend flying. A friend used this same battery to start his Subaru powered RV6 with no problems.

The Battery Tender Plus is a critical piece for any aircrafts' reliability.

Alan
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2 weeks 5 days ago - 2 weeks 5 days ago #19841 by kenryan
Replied by kenryan on topic No start new install
I have no way of knowing the exact number of lithium batteries in service in vehicles around the world, but it probably runs into the millions (motorcycles, ATVs, snowmachines, aircraft, etc.). Everybody that I personally know with an experimental aircraft is now using one. If weight is important and you are willing to take the time to do a little "battery learning" there is really no logical reason not to use an EarthX lithium aircraft battery. Additionally, it is my understanding that Rotax now officially endorses the use of EarthX batteries (ADMIN please correct me if I am wrong about that).
Last edit: 2 weeks 5 days ago by kenryan. Reason: add, clarify
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2 weeks 5 days ago - 2 weeks 5 days ago #19842 by garrett
Replied by garrett on topic No start new install
I think there is a logical reason not to use lithium, they can catch on fire.(period) AMG, Gel and lead acid do not. Google has pages of lithium battery fires.
Last edit: 2 weeks 5 days ago by garrett.

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2 weeks 4 days ago #19843 by admin
Replied by admin on topic No start new install
ROTAX only approves of Lithium batteries that have a suitable Battery Management System.

See ASB-912i-005iS ("The use of lithium-ion batteries with the ROTAX Engine Type 912 i Series").

EarthX states: " Inside every one of the ETX series batteries is a microprocessor Battery Management System (BMS) that monitors the charge level of each cell and balances the charge when needed, protecting the cells from overcharge or over-discharge. " - so those would qualify, if approved by the airframe manufacturer.

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2 weeks 4 days ago #19845 by kenryan
Replied by kenryan on topic No start new install
Garret, by all means if you are uncomfortable using a lithium battery, don't. However, readers of this forum should be aware that there are many, many different implementations of lithium batteries, and their characteristics are very different. The particular lithium implementation in the EarthX (and other) batteries is called "lithium iron phosphate" or LiFePO4. For those interested in learning more about the diversity of lithium batteries, here's a link: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
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2 weeks 2 days ago #19860 by jay white
Replied by jay white on topic No start new install
The no start issue has been solved by a fully charged battery. Thanks. I"m reading about the Lithium vs lead acid pro con. You are all vey helpful.

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2 weeks 1 day ago #19870 by bravo23c
Replied by bravo23c on topic No start new install
I've been using the EarthX battery, I believe its a 360C, on my 912 uls, since 2015 around 300hrs of use summer and winter. It works good , has a higher rating and is much lighter than the old battery.

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