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BUDS dongle ECU download error code messages reference

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7 months 2 weeks ago #19923 by PaulHamilton
Ok I had some lane lights come on and a bought a dongle and downloaded the errors.events. Warnings faults and failures. Where is the reference for all the error codes to troubleshoot/figure out what is happening?

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7 months 2 weeks ago #19925 by Neville
you must attend the Rotax maintenance school to have access to the interpretation to the decoding of the down loaded data. Run the engine with the dongle pluged in and look at the health page. I had a lane light and the active heath page reported the number one cylinder EGT was defective.

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7 months 1 week ago #19972 by PaulHamilton
Yes Neville I did fly with it live and no faults at the time. Pretty bad service policy to sell expensive dongles with no instructions on how to analyze/use it. Basically leaves me with no solution. I would think Rotax would like its customers to be able to service the engines in the field with a simple decoding/troubleshooting document. I was told by a Rotax service center there is no decoding document just trial and error in the field. Sadly this is overall pitiful support of the 912iS Rotax product. Knowing this I am starting to recommend people stick with the carb engines when making the decision of fuel injected or carbs.

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7 months 1 week ago - 7 months 1 week ago #19973 by Bill Hertzel
What error code are you seeing?

You may find Pages 8 and 9 of the attached PDF helpful.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.

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Last edit: 7 months 1 week ago by Bill Hertzel.

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7 months 1 week ago - 7 months 1 week ago #19975 by PaulHamilton
Faults are shown in the attachment. First and second downloads.

First I had the Lane A light come on solid, two out of three flights. When this happened in flight I did a quick reset (Lane A) off and back on (typically within gliding distance of a safe landing area) that would clear it. Sometimes I had to do this twice in a flight. This could not go on and had to be diagnosed. From my first dongle download Bryan determined that the ignition coils might be at fault with the SPARKS MISSED "Failure" from cylinder 3/4 (first Download). He suggested I clean/tighten the electric connections on the ignition coils which I did. This helped greatly but did not completely solve the problem.

Now I get a blinking Lane A, one flight every four flights (improvement from solid Lane A two out of three flights). Big improvement but still not acceptable. So now I am trying to figure out the blinking lane A with the new error code analysis with the "second download" NEW circled Faults from the second download.

Again, I am VERY irritated with this dongle download lack of information from Rotax. This fault/data key should be in the maintenance manual just like all the other maintenance items.

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Last edit: 7 months 1 week ago by PaulHamilton. Reason: had to many of the same attachment included in post

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7 months 1 week ago - 7 months 1 week ago #19976 by Bill Hertzel
I am not sure what more you would like to see. ???

I see faults all over the board that do not point to anything specific.
It looks like an electrical problem.
Is this engine more than 2 years old?
Was this engine involved in the Generator/Stator replacement Service Bulletin in 2016?
Were the Stators replaced?

This is a crazy batch of fault where it looks like it just about everything is going bad.
This brings my old troubleshooting mantra to mind.

"If it absolutely makes no sense, and it appears that Magic is at play, It is a Problem with the Grounds!".

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.
Last edit: 7 months 1 week ago by Bill Hertzel.

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7 months 1 week ago #19978 by PaulHamilton
I get similar gobbely goop on another 912iS engine that I downloaded via dongle that is running like a top. Yes both engines have had all the required stater updates.

The simple point is that if we had a tool to understand/decode all the specific Rotax messages they designed into the ECU to pop up, then we could make an informed decision as to what is going on.

Knowing what the messages are would explain allot.
Which ones would cause a solid Lane light, which ones would cause flashing Lane lights. Which are typically startup or run up faults, such as doing a run up and switching the Lanes off and back on.

The maintenance/service procedures for the dongle need to be in the Rotax engine maintience/service documents.

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7 months 1 week ago #19979 by Neville
The tool needed is the software titled BUDS log viewer software, On the Rotax site under ECU software is a list of which version is available for 3 types of operating systems. The listing states that training is required to obtain the appropriate software.

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7 months 1 week ago #19980 by PaulHamilton
Since all other maintenance/service procedures for rotax engine are in the Rotax engine maintenance/service documents to maintain the engine properly to ROTAX standards, why are the 912iS doggle maintience/service documents not provided? Why the secret? I do not understand. Rotax needs to change improve this policy it does not make sense. Every single procedure/process for installing/servicing and maintaining is in the rotax documents, why hold back needed information? Who at ROTAX can fix this? It is a much needed improvement in customer service.

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7 months 5 days ago #20001 by porterjames
Paul,
I can't enlarge the report you posted to the point I can read it, but it appears that it is a list of all the faults recorded during the last downloaded operational time period.
I think the system may record faults detected during the start up and shut down phase so it could be that many are really not germane to your in flight engine warnings.
The analysis of the time the fault is recorded should be correlated to an actual in-flight warning light and give you more insight into the problem.
Again, since I can't read the posted document, I am only offering it as a suggestion. You may have already distilled the faults during the in-flight time period.

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7 months 4 days ago - 7 months 4 days ago #20004 by Bill Hertzel
James,

It is hard to read and low resolution.
The Yellow highlights indicate that the second print is 44 hours after the first.
The circled entries are the only ones that have changed.

There were 10 New Generator select faults of two varieties.
There were 6 New eTPU (enhanced Time Processing Unit) Faults. (Crank Position Sensor???)
There were 11 New Cylinder #3 EGT Sensor Faults.

For a total of 27 Logged Faults in 44 hours.

I would work on that list from the bottom up.
The EGT faults are the most likely and easiest to resolve.
Swap the #3 EGT Probe with another cylinder and see if the problem moves (Intermittent Probe) or is resolved (intermittent connection).

Paul,
If you have a level 2 Dongle, you should be able to clear the faults so you do not have to keep looking at the faults that happened a hundred hours ago.

Bill Hertzel
Rotax 912is
North Ridgeville, OH, USA
whertzel1@yahoo.com
Clicking the "Thank You" is appreciated by all.
Last edit: 7 months 4 days ago by Bill Hertzel.

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7 months 3 days ago #20017 by porterjames
I pulled up my previous downloaded data from my engine. I have a level 3 dongle. Even though I have not had a lane warning light (since I zip tied the connectors), I have numerous fault codes in the records. The same as Paul discovered when looking at the fault codes from a different 912iS engine with no issues. Again, I think most of those are generated during start up and shut down (or lane tests during run up). In any case, I would be chasing non existent issues if I pursued them.
Instead of using the fault code page (unless the fault codes are time stamped) I suggest using the "Data" page and trying to connect a specific out of range engine function with the time period coincidental with the illumination of the lane warning light. On my computer those out of range functions are color coded.
If possible fly the airplane and use the dongle real time to see what is out of range when the lane light illuminates.
I certainly agree with Paul's concern about the lack of diagnostic information. There may be some Rotax document detailing the specifics of the engine computer but I am not aware of a list of possible failures that can trigger a solid or blinking warning light. That would at least narrow down the items to consider.

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6 months 3 weeks ago #20044 by PaulHamilton
Update. Yes I am going to reset/clear faults and try and correlate the hobbs time to the ECU time. My hobbs time is about 50 hours less than the ECU time (approx 10%). Not sure exactly what trigers what time. Perhaps the ECU time is registering any time the ECU is energized and the hobbs time is when the engine is running. Any one know what triggers the ECU time?

Yes I hooked up the live BUDS and recorded the flight and of course no Lane lights came on and everything was normal.

Lately NO LANE lightas have been coming on during flight now for the past 15 hours. Maybe it healed itself.

I fly these 912iS engines every day so I need to figure this out.

Again, I feel some basic guidance in the Rotax manuals for the downloaded error messages (like all the other Rotax systems) would be helpful and needed for the success of the engine.

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1 week 1 hour ago #22178 by PaulHamilton
I guess there is no progress trying to assist 912iS owners assess the error codes. Again this is a real dis service to owners/operators. Hopefully Rotax will realize this and provide better service.

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1 week 36 minutes ago #22182 by PaulHamilton
Need the dongle code book. I can NOT find a training course for the 912iS dongle codes. Have looked at CPS and Lockwood. Does Rotax even have such a course? if so where/when.

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6 days 23 hours ago #22188 by porterjames
As far as I know there is nothing distributed to Heavy Maintenance or lower training. Only short discussions on the use of the dongle. The service centers may have some reference material, otherwise you would have to pass your questionable codes to them to be passed to Rotax.
I have been told that new software will be released that would address this.

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6 days 54 minutes ago #22221 by PaulHamilton
Yes porterjames that is pretty sad. Lack of support of a needed service.

As much as it might surprise some, there is a whole industry out here that needs that engine running to survive and promote flying to the general public. Have a GA guy from out of town trying to finish training in a limited amount of time, thrilled about this new modern LSA and rotax, until we are shut down because no guidance on figuring out error codes to the dongle download. Now he is bad mouthing the rotax new engine and LSA in general as he looses a day of good flying and his valuable time.

Remarkably, Bryan Topher from California Power happened to be in his office, went out of his way to brilliantly assess the problem and find a solution from the downloaded dongle data. Great thanks to Bryan for being able to help. At least with the carb 912, mechanics have guidance in the rotax manuals to assess and fix the problem. Still can not understand why rotax is ignoring this. Rotax, please put this together. It is greatly needed.

I get asked all the time about if I would recommend the fuel injected option and it is not doing very well overall in my recommendations simply because of this maintenance issue. Take note 915iS potential customers. I would expect the same problem.

Point is - that rotax must immediately provide guidance/support for the dongle download data if it wants this fuel injection engine to be successful.

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6 days 25 minutes ago #22222 by bluepipe
I think that everyone who is anxious about this needs to do a better job of managing their expectations! :)

The primary function of the EMU (Engine Management Unit) is to manage the engine.

While it's certainly useful that the EMU can also log error codes and operating data, the complexity of the interaction of all of the various parameters makes it a very tall order to produce a universal "color-by-numbers" diagnostic guide suitable for field technicians without specific factory training.

And I expect that there could be considerable liability issues involved in providing "Magical A.I. Diagnostics®" to unqualified end-users! Does your modern high tech automobile come bundled with such an app?

I agree that there is probably some work-in-progress development going on in this area, but it looks to me like a "dongle code book" is not actually being advertised as a feature of the engine at this time...

www.flyrotax.com/files/Bilder/Produkte%2...Sc_A4_18.01.2018.pdf

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5 days 21 hours ago #22224 by PaulHamilton
bluepipe, be happy to lower my expectations and get some sort of help.
How about no Magical AI Diagnostics and a simple list of the Column titles meaning (FC_Type, FC_Test, FC_Error, and Fault Reading) and what the individual messages mean.

No diagnostics and combination. Simple list. Would be nice to know what specific warnings, failures, and errors would cause the lane lightsd to come on.

Talking with Bryan, as we were going down the list initially I was reading down and his response was, "that one is OK, no problem with that one, that one is important, better e mail it to me so I can look at it".

Just a simple list of the items someone spent allot of time generating and what they individually mean and if they are important. How is that for lower expectations.

Anything would be helpful.

Do you have the ability to influence/participate in this? Feel free to call me 775 772 8232 www.SportAviationCenter.com

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1 day 5 hours ago - 1 day 5 hours ago #22285 by Sportpilot85
if you right click on the fault and go to show error fault details it will tell you some more info about the fault and what it might be. Its not a helluva lot of info but its more than looking at the fault and scratching your head. Unfortunately if you don't got to RFSC diagnostics training you really don't have much of an insight. I attached two examples

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