Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by in 912 / 914 Technical Questions 10 years ago

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Re: Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by Al C » 10 years ago

Al C

63 138 106

Hi Bob,

As I said in my first post on this thread, I too also have been using ethanol 10% fuel in my 912UL for years and 400 hours with no problems or any hint of possibility of problems.

But folks still need to do their homework before doing this on THEIR aircraft, particularly if it's as with you and me, not a one-time thing, but they intend continuous use.
That's because outside the engine itself there are several potential places for trouble with ethanol in fuel. They are rare, but they do happen. Fuel filters, auxiliary fuel pumps, and as you say the fuel lines are all POTENTIALLY places that MAY not be ethanol tolerant.

CT owners initially got qualified blessings from Flight Design to run ethanol added fuel. Or at least the company didn't say "no." Then about 2008 they discovered that some of the fuel filters were being damaged by ethanol and issued this bulletin requiring immeadiate replacement of them (and they're not easy to reach on a CT AFAIK) if the owner has run E10 fuel:
flightdesignusa.com/wp-content/documents/SB-ASTM-CT2k-04.pdf
As far as I know no CT pilot has been injured or had their plane damaged by this issue, but it was serious enough for Flight Design to say don't dare fly until you fix this if you've used alcohol added fuel.

So although Rotax says OK, and the vast majority of pilots with Rotax engine would do well and be safe using ethanol added Mogas, we shouldn't IMO be writing anything implying that it's absolutely safe for EVERYone flying with a Rotax to use E10 fuel.
They need to do their homework or take their own chances.

My two cents.

Al

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Re: Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by Bob Hartunian » 10 years ago

Bob Hartunian

3 23 0

I use the Purolator auto filter in glass tube with replaceable plastic element and it is compatable with E-mogas; no degradation of element. Elements can be easily changed and parts available in auto stores.

Ethanol does effect bare glass/epoxy structure if tanks are made from it, which my Pulsar is, so fix is a coating of novolac, like Rhino 9700, which is immune from ethanol.
I would prefer no ethanol in gas but here in CA, no choice, so you modify system to handle it.

Thank you said by: Al C

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Re: Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by Roger Lee » 10 years ago

Roger Lee

126 5.13k 4.56k

When using ethanol fuels a metal filter is better than a plastic one. We have seen a number of plastic ones get a tad soft, but I will have to say I personally haven't seen a failure.
The Flight Design CT's went to a metal cleanable fuel filter.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-349-7056 Cell

Thank you said by: Al C

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Re: Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by Al C » 10 years ago

Al C

63 138 106

For what it may be worth.
One aircraft mechanic I was in contact with claimed that in the long run running alcohol containing fuel in a Rotax would cause more of SOME sort of wear or unwanted events in the engine that would only show up at time of overhaul. He was rather vague about it, and didn't have any specific information or data to back it up.
It is difficult to believe that Rotax, a very cautious company,would have in writing officially and explicitly approved use of 10% ethanol in their engines if this were true.
Although this man is a qualified aircraft mechanic (and I am not) I personally consider this in the category of "rumor.'

I'm curious if anyone here with experience of doing overhauls or teardowns on Rotax engines can from their experience comparing insides of engines that have been run on ethanol-containing fuel compared to others not run it can confirm or deny this mechanics claim?

What is further interesting in this to me is that it is known that running a Rotax on avgas DEFINITALLY does have unwanted effects on a Rotax engine yet this mechanic recommends his customers use avgas rather than alcohol containing mogas if those are the only choices.
Yet look at this note about what chronic avgas use can do to your Rotax (taken from one of the main documents on this topic that you can easily find on the web):

"The problems with the leaded fuels are the pollution and the heavy deposits
of lead left on the spark plugs, piston rings, oil passages, and cylinder heads. Fuels with lead can be used if the operator is willing to increase maintenance on these parts. In many cases ****the engine will require a top overhaul well before the TBO**** due to the lead contamination. Additives that help purge the lead, TCP for example, are beneficial, but, are not yet recommended by Rotax due to the volatile nature of such an additive. The Rotax liquid cooled head is also a problem with a lead enhanced fuel. In simple terms it runs too cold. The head never gets hot enough to allow the lead to “purge” itself of the deposits and they build up over time. In comparison, an air cooled head has massive heating and cooling cycles that keep lead contamination more under control."

Al

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Re: Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

by Roger Lee » 10 years ago

Roger Lee

126 5.13k 4.56k

Hi Al,

I don't think your mechanic is up on current events. They just pulled one engine apart with about 1400 hrs. running on very high ethanol levels (not in the US) and found it to be in great condition. I have friends that have 1500-3000 hrs of ethanol use and never an issue. Ethanol in Rotax engines is in use all around the globe. South America has levels 2-3 times what you find here in the US and don't have issues. I have been using ethanol in Rotax engines for over 13 years. Rotax has tested this and that's why you see an approval in writing. I haven't seen a single report yet that shows any ill affects on a Rotax with ethanol. If someone can show me something supported in writing that multiple engines have been affected solely from ethanol then I might re-consider.

Roger Lee
LSRM-A & Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Tucson, AZ Ryan Airfield (KRYN)
520-349-7056 Cell

Thank you said by: Al C, Barbara I Thomson

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Fuel is "approved" containing Ethanol

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