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  • Re: Manifold Pressure Values?????

    by » 8 years ago


    Help please! I also have been searching for the information that is the subject of this discussion. I have an 912is sport fitted to a Kitfox super sport 7 and an Airmaster CSP. The prop is programmed for 5000rpm cruise. I note that I can maintain the 5000rpm with MP settings down to 22"map. Now I am not a tech head - far from it - so excuse my ignorance here. But I have been thinking that as long as the throttle is open sufficient to allow the engine to maintain 5000rpm at cruise, that would be sufficient throttle. What am I gaining from opening the throttle more than that? Again, I am not sure what happens with the extra fuel if I run the throttle open beyond what is required to maintain the 5000rpm cruise. I mean the prop does not turn faster if I open the throttle beyond what is required to maintain the 5000rpm. So,

    I have owned a Mooney previously and could easily understand how to set the power - however, with the computer controlled 912is sport I am not sure how the throttle and the computer interact. I would appreciate any input from others who are more wise on this topic. I might add that I have written to the Rotax dealer asking for a similar explanation but didnt even get a reply!

    Regards
    ross

  • Re: Manifold Pressure Values?????

    by » 8 years ago


    Hi Ross,
    I suggest you invest in some lessons with a good instructor whom can explain, and show you what a "constant speed prop" actually is and what it does.

    There is a huge difference when opening your throttle at 5000 rpm and still maintaining 5000 rpm but shifting from a MAP of 22 to say 29.

    But a lesson will explain this far better than an online post.

    Every Prop brand, prop size, prop pitch and airframe and controller will have a different range of settings with a 912 IS engine, so Rotax cannot answer you question in a simple way.

    The only reason the old technology aircraft could put out a simple cheat sheet for Pilots was because they did the testing with a certain, airframe/engine/prop combo. There are literally hundreds of airframe/prop combinations Rotax could not possibly test all of them and make reccomendations.

    However it is actually quite simple, once you understand and know how your own system works..the computer does make life easier.



    kind regards

    Glenn

  • Re: Manifold Pressure Values?????

    by » 8 years ago


    I'm afraid it is Mr. Martin who needs the lesson. This is dangerous nonsense.

    The brand of constant speed propeller, airframe and equipment have nothing to do with the setting of the engine throttle.

    The throttle controls manifold pressure.

    The manifold pressure controls the torque of the engine.

    The resistance of the propeller in a fixed pitch determines the engine rpm for the developed torque and this relationship is fixed by the builder of the aircraft.

    However with a constant speed propeller, the propeller pitch is adjusted by the pilot through the controller to maintain a constant rpm at a set value independent of torque.

    The whole purpose of a constant speed propeller is to maintain the exact performance conditions (torque X rpm = power) specified by the manufacturer of engine for best power, economy or reliability of the engine. Typically this is specified for full power, maximum continuous power, 75%, 65%, 50%, etc.) The purpose of doing this is to maximise aircraft performance across the whole range of its operations (takeoff, climb, cruise) without having to make the tradeoffs required with a fixed pitch propeller.

    The fuel mixture, spark advance, etc. is determined by the ECU with reference to airbox pressure, manifold pressure, air temperature, rpm and EGT to develop the performance. These variables will change with temperature and air density. They have nothing directly to do with power, the ECU contains a map of all these variables and sets fuel flow according to all of them.

    Rotax needs to specify exactly what rpm and manifold pressure the company requires the engine to be run at to develop the advertised levels of performance. In part this is necessary because many engines have dangerous combinations of rpm and MAP that will cause premature engine failure, for example with the Rotax it would probably not be advisable to try to run it at 5000 rpm at 29 inches MAP, the engine might destroy itself.

    To put that another way, the pilot has direct control of rpm and MAP with a constant speed propeller but no control of fuel flow, which is handled by the ECU. We wish to know the throttle and rpm settings Rotax wants us to achieve.


    Alternatively, Rotax can provide an official statement in the engine operating instructions as to exactly how it requires the power and rpm to be set when using a constant speed propeller if this is different from the method taught to pilots for at least the last Sixty years.

  • Re: Manifold Pressure Values?????

    by » 8 years ago


    I will ask a guy with lots of experience with the 912iS and c/s prop
    OM_Ed1_R3page5-4.jpg (You do not have access to download this file.)

    Thank you said by: geoffrey klestadt

  • Re: Manifold Pressure Values?????

    by » 8 years ago


    Geoffry, Geoffery Geoffry...
    You arrogance and self belief are so total I wonder why you are asking questions ??

    Or are you here to just bitch at Rotax ?

    Your errors are too numerous to even discuss and your understanding of engines too rudimentary.

    Have you ever developed an aircraft engine from scratch??....

    I have

    Regards

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