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  • Re: Hard starting

    by » 7 years ago


    Yesterday flight, so I changed all plugs, wanted to check if fouled? They all looked normal and good/ clean. Topped off coolant overflow bottle was a bit low. Still the same hard start, used aux pump As taught on for about 10 seconds then off, throttle off back on stops, choked 10-15 seconds no go, choke off, try again, same, more throttle about forth try fired, runs a bit rough at first and low rpms and taxi, ( seems to have a slight occasional miss or Possabile fuel flow problem at low rpms?) run up fine mags good normal drops, flight and cruse good,15 min flight, fueled up second start, first hit perfect! The only thing I can't rule out is vapor lock or carb sync, but this started only with the hotter ambient temperatures, the oil temp before first start ambient eis system noted 101 Fahrenheit , should I try first start ( no choke?) not sure where to go from here besides having the carbs synced, which seems we're working fine until very first hot start about a month or so ago? Ps I appreciate all the responses and help from this forum thanks everybody signed learning my new rotax! Blessings

  • Re: Hard starting

    by » 7 years ago


    Leave the AUX Pump ON!

    You will not have "Vapor Lock with a Cold Engine (<130°F)
    Even if you did, The Aux Pump would quickly push the VaporLock out of the hoses if the pump was ON.

    Your symptom are typical of Dry Carb bowls!
    The fuel evaporates out the Carb Vent Hoses between flights.
    This is one of the reasons that the AUX Pump is installed.

    If the AUX Pump could flood the Carbs, So would the Mechanical pump.
    Leave the AUX Pump ON until you are above 1000' AGL.

    Bill Hertzel
    Rotax 912is
    North Ridgeville, OH, USA
    Clicking the "Thank You" is Always Appreciated by Everyone.


  • Re: Hard starting

    by » 7 years ago


    Thanks Bill, generally I always have the A/UX pump on to prime before start, for take off, climb out and landing phases of flight , also I believe you're right that there must be an evaporation going on . Was having trouble understanding how that could happen from the carb bowls or fuel lines.but I can see that through the overflow hose from the carb it's a possibility.
    yesterday it was 104 temperature on the EIS , probably a bit hotter in the hanger , I used the aux pump for about 10 seconds and then throttled about a half inch no choke , 5 seconds, stopped, then bumped to 3/4 of an inch throttle and then it fired right away . So I'm beginning to learn this engine this is my first year in the summer time since I purchased it in October last year, thanks for all your input next time I'm going to try to start it with the A/UX pump on! no choke.
    I guess my assumption has always been cold outside cold engine you use choke it hot outside hot engine no choke or partial. Still learning rotax.
    Also I see you said 103°F is cold engine so my last question aux pump on! Choke or no choke first start when it 90-100 Fahrenheit?

  • Re: Hard starting

    by » 7 years ago


    John,

    At higher temperatures Fuel evaporates faster.
    The carb bowls can get quite low sitting a day at 100° F.

    You should not expect Vapor Lock on an engine that has not been operated in the last few hours.
    At 1000MSL, 100LL fuel will Boil (Vapor Lock) at ~140°F.
    Summer MoGas will Boil at ~130°F, and Wither MoGas will Boil at ~120°F.
    So unless you are baking the engine under a Dark Cowling in direct SunLight, anything under 130°F is considered a Cold engine.

    Why Do We use a Choke???
    Liquid gasoline does not ignite. Only Fuel Vapors will burn.
    If it is cold enough Gasoline will not vaporize. But this is only a problem in Antartica. We are in the temperate zones.

    The carburetor sprays fuel into the carburetor airstream similar to a spray paint can.
    Some of it evaporates, Some of it wets the inside of the intake manifold.
    If it is cold, the wet gas does not evaporate much so we need to provide some extra gas to get a rich enough mixture that the spark plugs can ignite it.
    In winter, with a cold engine, only some of the fuel evaporates the rest gets blown out the exhaust.
    As the Engine, Actually the Intake Manifold, warms up, Eventually, all the fuel on the walls evaporate and the choke is no longer needed.

    On an idling engine with ~10" MAP, the Pressure Altitude in the Intake manifold is ~28,000 ft.
    At 28,000ft even 100LL will boil at ~80°F, MoGas even lower temperatures.
    So once the Engine reaches ~80-90°F, there is no longer the need for the Choke.

    You will find a point where the Engine will idle nicely, but misses when the throttle is opened.
    The pressure increases when you open the throttle lowers the Pressure Altitude in the carb and the cold fuel stops boiling causing a lean condition and the misfire.
    This is why you need to idle a little longer until the intake manifold gets warm enough.
    Now you know the reason that thermostats are set no cooler than ~180°F.
    Cooler is not Better.

    In Summer, the Engine is already above the Choke temperature and Not needed.
    It will start and idle, but it may still misfire if revved up until the temps get above ~120 (50°C).
    That should sound like a familiar number to a Rotax Owner.

    The AUX Pump is an AUXILIARY Pump, not a MOMENTARY Pump!
    It does the same thing that the Main Mechanical Pump does except it does not need the engine to be running to do it.
    It is Not there just to Prime the engine for 10 seconds. Leave it ON!

    Opening the throttle while cranking, bypass what we commonly call a choke, but is really an enricher fuel circuit in the carbs.
    The 912 does NOT have a Choke as we usually think of it.
    Opening the throttle also raises the pressure (Lowers the Vacuum) in the intake manifold, causing LESS fuel to evaporate.
    Opening the throttle will clear out a flooded engine by leaning it out. The opposite of what you need.

    If you have to crank the engine for 10-15 seconds with the mechanical pump before it starts, that means you needed another 10-15 second with the AUX pump to complete the Carb fill. Leave it ON!
    If you want to shut it OFF after starting and while taxiing, OK, but leave it on until the engine starts.

    The engine will require up to 2 revolutions of cranking for the ignition to charge.
    That should take well under a second.

    Turn ON the AUX Pump.
    Close the throttle.
    Wait 20-30 seconds. (Adjust as you get experience.)
    "Start"

    Bill Hertzel
    Rotax 912is
    North Ridgeville, OH, USA
    Clicking the "Thank You" is Always Appreciated by Everyone.


    Thank you said by: John Wilfley, jack duncan

  • Re: Hard starting

    by » 7 years ago


    I don't have an Aux pump, but I seem to get immediate starts even in hot weather. Maybe this is because I always leave my fuel shutoff valve ON and gravity flow from my highwing Kitfox keeps the carb bowls full? Is this a good or bad practice?

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